Interviews

Ivri Lider

During the Awareness week 2010 the Israeli movie The Bubble (2006) will be screened. CUSU LBGT had the chance to chat about International gay rights with Ivri Lider (www.ivrilider.com), an openly gay singer, LBGT activist and gay icon, who starred in the movie. Thanks goes to our Chair for conducting the interview.

B: One of the topics that is causing a big debate here in England is whether initiatives, such as Pride, LBGT History Month, focusing on raising awareness on LBGT issues are still important nowadays.

Ivri:I think you can easily misjudge the subject when you live in a place like London or Tel Aviv or Berlin or New York: you can think that everything's fine and everybody's very accepting and life is great and you can do whatever you want. But I don't think that's actually the case in a lot of different places, and for a lot of other people who live in other countries and other cities, even in a liberal country. So, I think that we can't allow ourselves to believe that this is the state of things everywhere 'cause it's not. And also I don't think we got to the point where we have actually the same rights as everybody, when you're talking about rights and being equal, then you should always strive to a condition [sic] where we'll have exactly the same rights, for instance if we talk about marriage or children or adoption or taxes or whatever it is. I think we're not there yet with all those issues and we probably shouldn't stop demanding our rights till we have them. That's why awareness is very important, and also for people that are still in the closet.

B: What do you think about gay icons? Are they something important to build a sense of community or just a fashion phenomena? Do you consider yourself a gay icon?

I: Gay icons or famous gay people out of the closet, who eventually will become gay icons, are something that's important for the gay community because they create visibility which is a very very important thing. I noticed that visibility can actually change people's minds and help them realize things about gay people. Some people have a very backward perception of what gays are and how can you live your life as one, so I think that when famous successful people come out of the closet they really help the cause, because they show that you can be successful and accepted and happy and you know, all that stuff that for instance, parents want for their children. When people see all that, they realize being gay is not a big issue: you can have a great life, you can be successful, you can make money, you can have love, you can have children and all those things that people want, either they're gay or not. Indeed visibility is very very important and it is the privilege famous gay people have: to be able to come out of the closet and bring out the views of the gay community to the straight people.

B: Do you think that sometimes, having that sort of social commitment as a popular out gay singer is something difficult to carry, something that can compromise your social and private life or is it just something you do because you strongly believe in it?

I: Well, I do believe in it, and I'm happy to fulfill it. At some points you know, you have to try to still have your privae life and be a private person, and that's ok, so sometimes you're more public, sometimes you're more private, but I do see it as some kind of a role and I'm happy to do it. And it's sure becoming a privilege.

B: That's great to hear, because most of the time people are acting 'not out' because they complain that otherwise they'll be only seen as gay people.

I: Yeah, I know but I think that if you're good at what you do, if you are a good artist, then eventually it becomes about what you do and your art, and your music and your lyrics, if you have something to say and if you're talented. The fact that you're gay might be an issue at first, a thing you talk about, but then it's over and I don't think it can make your career or break your career. I think it's just something's that there and at some point you can make it irrelevant in a way.

B: There is a huge debate going on about the distinction between marriage and civil partnerships. What do you think about it? And what do you personally prefer between the two?

I: Well, I'm not a religious person so for me any kind of civil commitment or whatever we want to invent as human beings is fine. But, at the same time I think I want to fight for exactly the same rights for straight people and gay people. So if straight people can marry then gay people should be able to marry, if they want. I don't necessarily say that they should want to, but if they want to, if it's something they want to do because it fits their beliefs or the way they want to live their lives, that's good and then they should be able to do it. Same thing with adoption, with children, with whatever. I don't see the difference between straight or gay as a human being and that's basically how it should be. There shouldn't be basically any difference, in my opinion.

B: I assume that you agree with the Adoption, although there is not an agreement on this matter even inside the gay community. I mean, even some LBGT people are cautious about it because they fear that children of an LBGT family could be refused by society.

I: I don't know, I just read a new publication of research that concluded that children of lesbian couples are the best children, the best educated, the more loved...

B: I saw that too.

I: So given that we have an article to prove our point, I guess. But I do think that a lot of times, children that are born to gay couples are really really thought about, the couple really thought about it and planned it, thought about all the little details, invested time and money, effort and emotion, and then when they have the kid they put everything into it, it's not a kid of coincidence and I think that influenced the kid and the way he/she has been brought up.

B: Yes, for sure it must be the most loved kid!

I: Yes, and that's important. That's the most important thing about kids.

B: Yes, that's why me and my girlfriend are thinking about it. So have you ever wished to be a father one day?

I: Yeah, sure. I guess I will, I hope I will. I almost became one this year, but it didn't happen, eventually. But, yes I think I will.

B: That's good. I think it's a really good thing to have public figures who are gay and have children to show how it's normal. Another issue we are facing because it's one of the problems we are dealing with now in Cambridge is how you can relate being LBGT and living in a religious society or how you deal with faith issues. Do you feel that being in a Jewish cultural environment you have some problems with religious people or something like that?

I: Well, I have to tell you that Israel in general and especially Tel Aviv is anything but a religious society. It's a very secular society, very non-religious, very modern, western; compare to England it's very much like London. So, myself as a man who lived in T.A, I don't really feel anything like that. If you talk about Israel in general, there is maybe something about rules in Israel that are still connected to religion in a way, like marriage and adoption will be a little bit harder to change, because of the connection between state and religion, that should be elminated, if you ask me. But I did go to Jerusalem like a few months ago at the LGBT center and talked to a group of religious gay guys, all religious, some more extreme, some less and all were there to talk about their problems and it was cool. And I've been to the gay synagogue in New York which was a funny experience, but you know, a lot of people who are gay and want to be religious at the same time, they find a way to deal with it and they find a way to justify or modify their religion so that it suits their way of life and who they are. And I think that's fine, 'cause no one has the right to decide what way of religion is the right way and what's the wrong way. So if that's their way of interpreting the Bible, that's very good.

B: Yes, for example the issue we are facing here in Cambridge, which is a very tolerant city, is that religious groups from different religions became scared about the exposure the LBGT campaign has here in Cambridge and they are making some troubles not only for their own members but also for the others.

I: You know, I think it's what we see all over the world with different countries and different religions. There's always the clash between LGBT issues and agendas and religious groups that think it's against their agenda or something. But, if you want to be a hater there's nothing we can do about it except maybe try to express ourselves in the best way we can but it's not really up to us in a way, there's really nothing we can do about it. We can just fight for our rights and demand what's ours.

B: Yes, we are trying to have some positive dialogue, because sometimes LBGT organisations have been really aggressive towards some groups and that's not really productive.

I: I certainly believe that if the other side is willing to have a discussion, then that's great. It's a very good way to open minds. They're not always willing to discuss, but when they do that's good.

B: We heard about you writing an English album and in the executive (fufu) we are really looking forward to it.

I: Yes, me too.

B: For some people it can be really hard to understand your lyrics otherwise.

I: I guess! Hebrew is not a very common language.

B: How do you find having to write in a language that is not your own and trying to adapt your expression into another language?

I: I find it really interesting. It's been really refreshing to express yourself in a different language. I've been living my life for the last, let's say 5 years, half in English, half in Hebrew because of my partners, they all speak English. But I also think that the way English connects to music is different from the way Hebrew and its sounds connect to music. So I guess it's really interesting for me after years and years in Hebrew, composing lyrics in Hebrew, moving to composing lyrics in English, because it creats a different music and then it gives you the opportunity to go and work with Andy Green who produces the album and we've admired their work for years; and to meet audiences outside our country and they can actually understand what we're talking about and that's nice.

B: You also had a really succesful tour in the U.S last year, and are you planning to do something worldwide?

I: Yes, we met all kind of places last summer, we played in the U.S, in Spain, and we'd like to go out and release the album all over and we would like to play for people in different places, that'll be cool.

B: Do you perceive that your career in English is strongly based on the fact that you're an out gay singer or just on the fact that your music can talk to everyone?

I: Well, I think that my music is not necessarily a statement.. I'm a gay man, and I'm out of the closet and everybody knows that and that's cool, but that's only part of my world. The subjects of my songs, if it's human relations or if it's just stuff about the world, modern society; I think it's of relevance to everybody. If I hear a love song that a straight man wrote, I can totally relate to it, because love is just love, it's the same for everybody. On the other hand I think that what you can hear in my songs, there's something about it that will... well, because there's not a lot of out gay singers, I think it's something that gay people will connect to easily. I know when I was younger I was listening to songs and trying to understand stuff between the lines, and I think that now with some artists you don't need to go totally between the lines, and you can feel connected and that's good. But eventually I would like to have an audience outside of Israel, like the audience I have in Israel which is not necessarily a gay audience. It could be gay, it could be straight it could be whatever! And I don't really ask people when they come to see me play. And actually I like seeing during concerts a gay couple or a straight couple holding hands, it's really nice, then you realise that the stuff we're talking about is basically relevant to all of us, whatever our sexual orientation is or our beliefs are or whatever.

B: That should make you really proud of what you're doing because if you succeed, and you are, then you must be really good in what you are doing. I mean if the message is always understood by different kinds of people it's really good. What about the music process? Do you feel, when writing differently, that the music part is also different? Do you maybe pick up different models, different kinds of inspiration or is it still the same and it's just the way the lyrics are written that changes?

I: I don't really think about it when I write, but I think it is a bit different. I think it takes me to all kinds of musical places that maybe didn't go with my Hebrew music. And I think it's also the language that's different, the vowels are different and it rolls different on the tongue and it definitely influences the melodies, yes. I think when someone will listen to my English album, will also feel that in a way. It's me and you can hear me in it, and you can hear the way I write music and connect to everything I did, but it's still a bit different.

B: Thank you. And what kind of instrument do you use to write music on? Piano or guitar?

I: I usually write on keyboards because I'm a pianist, so most of the piano, but sometimes I write on the guitar, sometimes I write on the computer, it depends. Sometimes I just write something in my head and then play it out.

B: Thank you. So, I think I have to let you go. Thank you very much from all the executives at CUSU. We are looking forward to hearing your English album and maybe to seeing you!

I: Yes, I would like to come to Cambridge when I'm back in England!